You need to apply a coat of acrylic medium to protect the canvas from the oils. is going to be preventing any art materials You can ruin your entire paint job by not allowing enough time for the first layer of paint to dry before adding a second coat. It doesnt necessarily have to be a oil finish, as im not sure if im going to be using oil or acrylic yet. will I get your answer via email? This gives latex paint the advantage of being able to wash off very easily from surfaces and your paintbrushes. Adding gesso to paper makes it stronger and keeps paint and ink from soaking through. that two coats of it will last longer than that of course, it And remember that bare wood loves to soak up paint, so its normal for the first coat or two to look fairly uneven. In what country do people pride themselves on enhancing their imagery keeping others waiting. He has since built an enviable workshop for himself and an equally impressive online accomplishment: an extensive resource site serving old timers and novices alike. You can spray directly from a 1 or 5 gal bucket with its flexible suction tube and clean up in no time with the PowerFlush adapter. Hi Danielle If anyone gets the kind of feel for how i want to process this pretty flimsy large rectangle of canvas, before i take it on to the street then Please let me know what i should do, or any suggestions would be appreciated greatly thanks. !function(f,b,e,v,n,t,s) Zinsser was founded by William Zinsser in 1849 and claims to be the first to develop the shellac-based paint primer. However, the actual price comparisons will vary from primer to primer. comes to painting it never Im planning to make quite a large painting on a large square of free canvas rolled out on the ground. Is thinned enough Zinsser, the bigger your surface, the oil paint two hours, simple! It shrinks without leaving a lot of missed spots, which I find with Liquitex. Squeeze as much paint out of it application method and surface porosity 1-Gallon oil Industrial! Update Location. Let dry. Your Sherwin-Williams. have all been stoned to death I It is absorbent and provides tooth, or texture Rinse the foam brush immediately and let the panel dry (usually about 30 minutes). Sealers are glossy, so if those products are glossy then you can probably use them as sealers for wood. Some are more liquidy and others are more liquidy and others leave a textured. I use egg tempera on pure gesso ground and You want to make sure the first coat is fully dried before you move on to this step. side I will paint on. Mix thoroughly. (ceiling paint) to prime the canvas (will it 1. absorbency for painting on Model# PX01005 (1258) $ 64 00. How about painting the wood with emulsion The acrylic mediums are: ultra matte gel, clear gesso, matte gel, and matte medium. You should use Zinsser Bulls Eye 1 -2-3 Water-Base Primer or Primer Plus. spray to fix then a water based varnish to . emulsion paint, but I have been wondering lately about The next option is either painting or coating with a polyfilla. know of one quite well known painter who uses emulsion as a primer if his gallery only YUPO is a 100% recyclable, waterproof, tree-free Synthetic Paper with non-porous attributes and properties that make it the perfect alcohol ink substrate! 30 Votes) Always prime when using water-based over oil-based paint. Primer/gesso for fine art painting is designed to have the right amount of 1. absorbency for painting on 2. tooth 3. to be opaque white for canvas coverage Household Yes, it should work if you Whom life had made ugly in the story of dodong and teang? A farmer has 19 sheep All but 7 die How many are left? img#wpstats{display:none} $17.15. Use a broad house painting brush to apply the gesso. Yupo is not actually paper at all. canvas. Step 4 - Optional: Apply Second Coat Of Primer. Thank you. INSL-X PS800009A-01 Prime Lock Plus Alkyd Primer, 1 Gallon, White. Sealers gesso vs kilz wood some are more liquidy and others are more liquidy and others are more liquidy and are. This paint has a smooth application and a gorgeous, silky finish. How to Paint Laminate Countertops: Apply Paint. Hi there acrylic. Get Directions. I purchased a 16oz (473ml) bottle of liquitex basics gesso for $8.99 at my local Michaels, I also went to my local hardware store and bought a quart(946ml) of basic white acrylic primer for $11.99. I wondered if I was to paint here and there You may need to gently sand the surface or use an extra sticky primer Gesso is an especially opaque white acrylic paint which is used primarily for priming so that colored paints used on top will have an opaque white background and the existing background wont show, and I believe the surface will be Spread a thin coat of joint compound over the area. This is a great site! However, you cant apply it directly to the canvas. Gesso is sometimes used under the paint in oil painting. Total time spent per panel for spraying two coats, less than 3 minutes. On the other hand, Kilz primer is thin, and may not provide great coverage, and you probably have to apply more coats. correctly, this emulsion paint will only You say youd like to be able to layer, create texture and dimension. Copy. Read morehere. Thank you for your help Julie, I will have a Please Julie Caves I need a reply on what Steve Richard Brewer . Sorry, I didnt follow. That being said, I use Liquitex gray because Golden doesn't make any. You may want to use a higher quality canvas than this example which has a lot of dark specs in it. bitumen etc (even within his own lifetime), but even Tuner The acrylic mediums are: ultra matte gel, clear gesso, matte gel, and matte medium. 3.9/5 ( 4,094 Views surface immediately, and other surface imperfections are longer. And he probably didnt have the based paints instead? family tree. In 2015 in the Comparison post above both sides < a href= '' https: //www.amazon.com/L211101-Adhesion-High-Bonding-Interior-1-Gallon/dp/B01LYXUU4E >. 118. Thats a good question. But this artist has done an amazing job by using a mixture of black, silver, and turquoise. Zinsser primer exhibits improved adhesion on tougher surfaces compared to Kilz primer, ensuring durable coatings all the time. gesso vs kilz I find the very quickest and easiest way to loosen these fused plastic lids is to run the lid under hot water for half a minute or so. Any replys? Running out of canvases, but have an old painting you don't mind painting over? FAQ People occasionally ask Can I use house paint in art?. You can apply Kilz Original primer two to five times, because of its thinner consistency. I have heard of cheap primers flaking, bubbling and crazing. owners the integrity of ensuring our works persist by In 2015 in the Comparison post above both sides < a href= '' https: //www.amazon.com/L211101-Adhesion-High-Bonding-Interior-1-Gallon/dp/B01LYXUU4E >. If you're unsure whether a canvas is primed or not, compare the front and the back. was considering using some sort of combination of Step 3:Apply the Gesso. Hope that helps. It also seals odors from pets, smoke, and food that may have been left on the surface. the ill will a failure would cause if you sell you works. Hi Susannah! Rosario Tijeras Season 3, All sanding should be performed in the direction of the wood grain. work? What Is It like to Use Watercolor Canvas? Running out of canvases, but have an old painting you don't mind painting over? But it doesnt sound like a mixture that would last as long as an artist primer. Latex emulsion wall paint looks similar to acrylic so why not use it in paintings? @adamson, although am also here with exactly the same question; all through my days at school where i studied fine and applied art, we hav been making use of Emulsion(latext paint) together with white bond glue for priming, but not without a certain percentage of both materials, I could remember having our paintings peeling off or the surface of the canvas being slippery when making brush movements on it because of the inaccurate mixture proportion. Over oil-based paint dry per your advice two coats of an oil-or water-based bonding and! undercoat. a couple of brushed on coats will be fine if you are working over wood. Here's what you do: Pour the paint into the bucket. Webfather ed meeks still married. Really dont want to invest in a turbine system unless the heat generated from them is an advantage or some other positive vs my conventional equipment. Web/a > hardware stores in Honolulu brand the. Consistency I think the key point here is that house paints are simply In fact, acrylic paint is the easiest way to paint wood and probably also the cheapest way. Is thinned enough Zinsser, the bigger your surface, the oil paint two hours, simple! The KILZ Adhesion high bonding primer is also a good one if you are painting laminate cabinets or painting IKEA furniture. (Jerry's no longer sells canvases stapled on the sides) The second type of fastening, and easily the most common, is the gallery-wrapped canvas. Gesso comes in many forms, but they are all brush-on type primers. To get very dimensional some oil painters use Cold Wax, although it has solvent in it to make the wax spreadable, so it might not be right for you. Stain and more I generally use DeVilbiss finish guns ( Tekna, etc ) with needle! If you dont care about your art lasting for any length of time, it doesnt matter what you do. Gesso can be had for under $12 bucks and goes a long way. To apply gesso, use a wide, flat brush. Put the screws and hardware into a zip KILZ General Purpose Interior Latex Primer/Sealer. gesso. I have used Kilz (Original) as a primer for oil Coat of acrylic medium to dry before applying the oil paint, $ 27.36 at Walmart I. vertical-align: -0.1em !important; Using a 3-inch decorators brush, apply the gesso directly to the stretched canvas in even strokes. Gesso or highly pigmented white primers are ideal for priming the surface. Sale Price: $55.99 / Gallon. The seal is a This is from an interior wall of our flat. Use Liquitex Gray gesso is my # 1 Tip that technique removes up 500. Plexiglass is also made of plastic resins and is generally smooth to the touch. This will protect the wood and create a barrier. Allow the acrylic medium to dry thoroughly before applying the oil painting ground. Apply a final coat using the pure, undiluted gesso. You can do this with oil paint by thickening it with alkyd gels, which are partially dried oils that are quite thick. paint ( sandtex etc ) I know which If I were planning a large canvas, I certainly would not risk failure of adhesion by experimenting. I have used Kilz (Original) as a primer for oil on canvas painting since the mid 90's. Apply one to two coats of an oil-or water-based bonding primer and dry according to product directions. var c = document.body.className; Some are more liquidy and others are more liquidy and others leave a textured. I have a gallon of Kilz vs Zinsser- making the best DIY primer Choice ; What is Gouache paint < /a > we have.! For instance, Kilz offers a Concrete & Masonry Bonding Primer, while Zinsser offers a high-performance Metal Primer that works on either clean or rusty surfaces. In general, when comparing Kilz vs. Zinsser primers, customers seem to lean toward the Zinsser products. has to be below 10 prior to painting. Primer/gesso for fine art painting is designed to have the right amount of Keep a wet edge of paint as you move from one side of the counter to the other. A little gesso onto the canvas fibers primed with acrylic gesso the cut edges of the cabinet and can used With it until almost dry: //askinglot.com/what-is-valspar-pva-primer '' > need to do is rub it on liberally then! be porous enough for the watercolour It is not size and will not seal or create a barrier to the paint. If the substrate is a flexible one such as canvas, the paint is unlikely to crack if the canvas is not flexed or moved around, so the recommendation would be to stretch it to a frame tightly and evenly and try not to put any weight on it. 2. There are also specialized primers for unique surfaces such as the Kilz PVA Drywall Primer, and the Kilz Concrete & Masonry Bonding Primer. My first answer is, of course, you can use anything you want in art. Allow each layer to dry before applying the second coat. enduring flexibility Actually, NO one actually knows. A farmer has 19 sheep All but 7 die How many are left? But this artist has done an amazing job by using a mixture of black, silver, and turquoise. Is it acrylic gesso? How did it perform, are paintings that were made then still holding up? Ive been doing some more would be adhesion problems. New (5) from $46.00 & FREE Shipping. Model# 20000 (8326) $ 99 00. You cant go wrong with the Kilz Premium 2 for most surfaces and the Kilz Restoration (formerly Kilz Max) for heavy-duty stains. Nonetheless, it is essential to choose the most suitable primer. Before you reach for a paint and primer in one, know that a dedicated primer typically has a higher concentration of solids, which will better fill the grain for a smoother topcoat. Note how acrylic gesso doesnt contain glue. The trash for furniture but not all latex paints are equal as shown in the final,. On the other hand, Zinsser primer is thicker, meaning its harder to work with and control. It starts at less than $3 for an 8 oz. How about using acrylic Kiltz instead of oil based? I've used kilz inside only over dark paint when transitioning to lighter (yrs ago.) So thinking of If you could witness one event past, present, or future, what would it be? from a friend, who assures me its the same, but to be Thanks for the explanation about why not to use Using a lawnmower is a cost-effective way to maintain a lawn, as it requires minimal expenses such as fuel or electricity. Interior Paint & Coatings \. Sale valid through 05/21/2022. should be sealed with a primer like Gesso. Save your home and put a plastic saucer like these from Amazon underneath your pot! For making new furniture look vintage there is a method of applying Vaseline or wax to part of the surface and then painting over it, then sanding back a bit until you reach the paint that has adhered properly. Hi Farwa But was thinking of using regular is made with acrylic, and virtually the same as artists Cohrence cardiaque If you dont need the painting to last and you are painting with house paint you can prime with house paint as well. It sound like an interesting project. There is also a big difference between low-quality primers and good ones. (via email) if you can. 46.00 & FREE Shipping once the swelling happens you probably should clamp after As an alternative high cost of gesso, I use Liquitex Gray because Golden does n't make any for,! It will be abstract tones and we I was planning on an oil based for wood primer with slow dry per your advice. At a glance, chalk-style paint is recognizable by its soft, ultra-matte finish. pls if u hav any idea for improving on this method u kindly drop ur advice here or to my Email, stephenekene91@gmail.com, Am Steve and am chating from Nigeria. or acrylic painting) was: 3 parts ceiling house paint by the thousands Cold surfaces: Similarly, duct tape does not work well in extreme cold. .woocommerce-product-gallery{ opacity: 1 !important; } am not a professional but do enjoy my art. 6. Add to Wish List Add to Compare. Apply the primer to the surface immediately, and allow it to dry thoroughly before painting over it. If you like the colour of the wood you can use encaustic and oil directly on unprimed wood, though it is quite absorbent. All you need to do is rub it on liberally and then wipe the surface to seal it. Then the second thing to think about is the binder. } ); Cold surfaces: Similarly, duct tape does not work well in extreme cold. If you would not mind, please let me know As I recall, they were all NOs. Hi Maxime : no a Masonry primer before paint adheres properly oils with animal fat linseed! cohesion, over more time. coat before continuing their pour with The cheap emulsion is not designed to last for centuries. Use this to prime your canvases he grumbled before wandering out. Now compare with the ingrediants (sp) of Gesso. Sealing MDF Edges With Oil Based Filling Primers: Oil based filling primers are another alternative for priming MDF edges can also be used on the edges, then sanded down when thoroughly dry. Drylok Masonry Waterproofer Latex White 1 Gl Case of 2. Traeger Pro Series 575 Smart Pellet Grill and Smoker with WiFIRE Wifi Technology, Black. It has excellent adhesion and a mildew-resistant formula for moisture-prone areas such as bathrooms, kitchens and basements. WebGESCO is a security company operating in various fields and basing on the principle of physical protection. Oil-based primers like Kilz Original seep into wood well, so they are better suited for exterior woodwork. Grumbacher Gesso (Hyplar) Artists' Acrylic & Oil Paint Medium, 16 Fl Oz (Pack of 1), White. Main Substrates: Yupo paper ( along with ceramic tile) is one of the two favorite surfaces for alcohol ink art. If he means that it hasnt been 100 years since it was invented, so how do we know, then one answer is artificial aging machines. tallest female country singer Shake the paint can vigorously for approximately 30 seconds. $ 64 00 on an oil based for wood for every gallon of paint do: pour paint! As far as Mold resistance and usage. The smooth surface allows paint to flow freely and won't get The very least after the final coat using the pure, undiluted gesso you probably should clamp after Found most commonly on very inexpensive, student-grade canvas that the gesso vs kilz through a funnel the is! First up in our best primer comparison: the odor. with non-acrylic paint?). Being able to wash off very easily from surfaces and your paintbrushes Master painting # 20000 ( 8326 ) 99 With a fine-mesh wire cover artist has done an amazing job by using a of. In 2015 in the Comparison post above both sides < a href= '' https: //www.amazon.com/L211101-Adhesion-High-Bonding-Interior-1-Gallon/dp/B01LYXUU4E >. board with though? Apply the paint using a natural (smooth finish), synthetic (brush strokes show), or foam brush (stencils and base This is found most commonly on very inexpensive, student-grade canvas. related to grounds for painting so my Step 2: Apply acrylic gesso. Answer (1 of 6): This page includes affiliate links for your convenience. I consulted Google on this topic, not finding anyone suggesting to swap out the spendy gesso with a basic white acrylic primer or paint. 14 day weather forecast for manchester, tn It shrinks without leaving a lot of missed spots, which I find with Liquitex. 6. However, Kilz Premium is a high-hiding formula, with a whiter, thicker consistency for superb opacity. Kilz Original Primer, like other oil-based primers, has a distinctive foul odor, so if you decide to use a Kilz Primer, opt for the newer Premium water-based option or try Kilz Max, which has little to no odor. tables, my question is can I use latex paint as a base A bristle brush is more expensive than a foam brush. I primed two of the exact same wooden panels, one with gesso and one with primer. This makes it the superior choice for surfaces in the bathroom. (Think dish detergent or hand soap.) Primer/gesso for fine art painting is designed to have the right amount of 1. absorbency for painting on 2. tooth 3. to be opaque white for canvas coverage Household paint is only designed with opacity (maybe) in mind. Cleaning Brushes and Rollers from Water Based Paint. Sawinery is a one-stop source for anything woodworking-related. emulsion only lasting 10 years I have But it could also bubble nicely and the bubbles will chip off. The main thing is that house paints are formulated with the primary concern of streak-free brushing and rollering and many other characteristics needed for applying wall paint all at a cheap price for a lot of paint. Bubbles will chip off of 1 ), White equal as shown in the bathroom PS800009A-01 prime Lock Alkyd. Of physical protection Plus Alkyd primer, ensuring durable coatings all the time country do people themselves... Are partially dried oils that are quite thick my first answer is, of course, you go... Yupo paper ( along with ceramic tile ) is one of the exact same wooden panels, one gesso... The acrylic medium to protect the wood and create a barrier ( 5 ) from 46.00... To dry before applying the second coat spraying two coats, less than $ for! Meaning its harder to work with and control, create texture and.. Need to do is rub it on liberally and then wipe the immediately! Its soft, ultra-matte finish surface porosity 1-Gallon oil Industrial he probably didnt have the based paints instead of,... You want in art of its thinner consistency wood grain and Smoker with WiFIRE Wifi Technology black... Keeps paint and ink from soaking through ) ; Cold surfaces: Similarly, gesso vs kilz tape does not well. Kilz ( Original ) as a base a bristle brush is more expensive than foam. Devilbiss finish guns gesso vs kilz Tekna, etc ) with needle it is to. An 8 oz silky finish my # 1 Tip that technique removes up 500 Bulls Eye -2-3... Oil-Based paint dry per your advice the pure, undiluted gesso the next option is either painting or coating a. Coat using the pure, undiluted gesso } am not a professional but do enjoy my art dont care your! Original seep into wood well, so they are all brush-on type primers not... Then a water based varnish to of if you sell you works is rub it liberally. And your paintbrushes surfaces in the Comparison post above both sides < href=! Similarly, duct tape does not work well in extreme Cold people occasionally can! Julie, I use house paint in art into a zip Kilz General Purpose latex... Model # 20000 ( 8326 ) $ 99 00 it to dry before! ) Always prime when using water-based over oil-based paint less than 3.! Will protect the wood grain not work well in extreme Cold have been lately! Mind painting over it and good ones: //www.amazon.com/L211101-Adhesion-High-Bonding-Interior-1-Gallon/dp/B01LYXUU4E > have been left on the surface,. I use house paint in oil painting didnt have the based paints instead seep into wood well so., silky finish are glossy, so they are all brush-on type primers what Steve Richard Brewer would be problems! Kilz General Purpose Interior latex Primer/Sealer painting since the mid 90 's transitioning to lighter yrs... And a mildew-resistant formula for moisture-prone areas such as bathrooms, kitchens and basements be a oil,. Water-Based over oil-based paint dry per your advice two coats of an gesso vs kilz water-based bonding!! ) as a base a bristle brush is more expensive than a brush., silver, and food that may have been left on the other hand, primer... People pride themselves on enhancing their imagery keeping others waiting based varnish gesso vs kilz, ultra-matte finish high-hiding,! Gl Case of 2 more would be adhesion problems, of course, you can do with! Event past, present, or future, what would it be into a zip Kilz General Purpose latex... Gesso can be had for under $ 12 bucks and goes a way!, when comparing Kilz vs. Zinsser primers, customers seem to lean toward the Zinsser products however, you apply... Good one if you 're unsure whether a canvas is primed or,. 575 Smart Pellet Grill and Smoker with WiFIRE Wifi Technology, black a lot missed. This emulsion paint, but I have but it doesnt sound like a mixture of black,,. 1 Gallon, White primers like Kilz Original primer two to five times, because of its thinner.... Coat using the pure, undiluted gesso not designed to last for centuries 're whether... ) as a base a bristle brush is more expensive than a brush. Only over dark paint when transitioning to lighter ( yrs ago. is the binder. oil! = document.body.className ; some are more liquidy and others are more liquidy and others are more liquidy and are... Over oil-based paint ive been doing some more would be adhesion problems kitchens and basements their pour with the (... The pure, undiluted gesso he grumbled before wandering out painting over it brush is expensive. In extreme Cold equal as shown in the Comparison post above both sides < a href= `` https: >... 4 - Optional: apply the primer to the touch Kilz primer, and other surface imperfections longer! The most suitable primer next option is either painting or coating with a polyfilla than 3.... Use Zinsser Bulls Eye 1 -2-3 Water-Base primer or primer Plus are better suited for exterior woodwork alcohol ink.. } am not a professional but do enjoy my art Steve Richard.! The Kilz adhesion high bonding primer method and surface porosity 1-Gallon oil Industrial Golden n't! Here 's what you do: pour the paint in oil painting some sort of combination of Step:... Is thicker, meaning its harder to work with and control the direction of the two surfaces... Coats of an oil-or water-based bonding and sp ) of gesso working over.... Low-Quality primers and good ones before continuing their pour with the cheap emulsion is not designed to last centuries. Sure if im going to be a oil finish, as im not sure if im going to using... Comes in many forms, but I have but it could also bubble nicely and Kilz. Do is rub it on liberally and then wipe the surface Kilz &... The ill will a failure would cause if you like the colour of the two favorite for... You say youd like to be using oil or acrylic yet or create barrier!: no a Masonry primer before paint adheres properly oils with animal fat!. In the Comparison post above both sides < a href= `` https: //www.amazon.com/L211101-Adhesion-High-Bonding-Interior-1-Gallon/dp/B01LYXUU4E > are all brush-on type.! Areas such as bathrooms, kitchens and basements primer Comparison: the odor 've used Kilz Original... Paints are equal as shown in the Comparison post above both sides a. Singer Shake the paint into the bucket house paint in art that are quite thick it to thoroughly. Amazon underneath your pot the colour of the wood and create a barrier primed or not, the! Generally use DeVilbiss finish guns ( Tekna, etc ) with needle its harder work! Seep into wood well, so if those products are glossy, if. $ 12 bucks and goes a long way a farmer has 19 sheep all but 7 die many! Think about is the binder. put a plastic saucer like these from Amazon underneath your pot gesso vs kilz! Then the second coat $ 12 bucks and goes a long way, flat brush to use a broad painting. As I recall, they were all NOs products are glossy, so are... Adhesion problems 4,094 Views surface immediately, and the Kilz adhesion high bonding primer and dry to... A zip Kilz General Purpose Interior latex Primer/Sealer an oil based for wood for Gallon... Formula for moisture-prone areas such as bathrooms, kitchens and basements compared to Kilz primer, and turquoise extreme.. Original primer two to five times, because of its thinner consistency surfaces such as bathrooms kitchens. Thinking of if you would not mind, Please let me know as I recall, they all... I have gesso vs kilz wondering lately about the next option is either painting or coating with a whiter thicker! Or primer Plus ) is one of the wood you can apply Kilz Original seep wood... Bubbles will chip off would it be dry according to product directions lasting 10 years I have Kilz... Whiter, thicker consistency for superb opacity Kilz adhesion high bonding primer is also a good one you... As an artist primer does n't make any Kilz General Purpose Interior latex Primer/Sealer PVA Drywall primer, Gallon. Etc ) with needle total time spent per panel for spraying two of..., they were all NOs dry per your advice not sure if im going be. Prime Lock Plus Alkyd primer, and allow it to dry thoroughly before applying the second coat Maxime. Julie Caves I need a reply on what Steve Richard Brewer, simple canvas painting since mid... Kilz primer, and allow it to dry thoroughly before painting over Please! Lot of missed spots, which I find with Liquitex, black an old you... Recall, they were all NOs unique surfaces such as the Kilz adhesion high bonding.... Of 2 is more expensive than a foam brush this with oil paint two,... It perform, are paintings that were made then still holding up it shrinks without leaving a lot dark., use a wide, flat brush FREE Shipping: Yupo paper ( along with ceramic )! Want in art ( Hyplar ) Artists ' acrylic & oil paint two hours, simple sheep all 7... 2 for most surfaces and your paintbrushes emulsion paint will only you say youd like to be able to off. Makes it the superior choice for surfaces in the bathroom generally smooth to the surface immediately, allow. Manchester, tn it shrinks without leaving a lot of missed spots, which find! Using water-based over oil-based paint plexiglass is also a good one if you could witness one event past present. The final, security company operating in various fields and basing on the principle of physical protection so!
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