the first M2 stocks. All matching even the trigger group. A full parts list with their markings is included in the photographs. Saginaw Carbines made in the Grand Rapids, Michigan factory are marked SG . The receiver, bolt, and trigger group have been refinished. Any opinions on how rare/popular collector is a Saginaw stamped M-1 Carbine? M1 Carbine Production Dates * All dates and serial numbers are approximate * MFG Month Year Ending Serial # Inland - Inland Manufacturing Division of GM November 1941 5 WRA - Winchester Repeating Arms Co. December 1941 10 Inland - Inland Manufacturing Division of GM May 1942 999999 WRA - Winchester Repeating Arms Co. September 1942 1349999 Lighter colored wood such as birch was often stained darker before being finished. As originally manufactured, many of the parts were stamped with initials of the prime contractor and, in some cases, the subcontractor that actually manufactured the part. Color can sometimes have a grey, purple, or reddish cast. Because of it's size and weight the M1 carbine became fairly popular with many GI's. then allowed to dry. The Discussion Forum also serves as a reference desk for the more advanced material that could easily overwhelm a website and is often subject to opinions that may vary I do know it is a really nice M1 and I would not part with it. The metal shows scrapes, scratches, and discoloration from oil residue and oxidation. While a crack can happen anywhere in the stock there are several places it was more prone to happen than anywhere else. Winchester made 828,059, followed by Underwood Elliott-Fisher at 545,616, The barrel is marked "SAGINAW S.G. DIV. Instead of buying a gun thats Irwin-Pedersenhad assembled only 3,542 guns at the time, none of which were accepted by the government. The receiver is marked Saginaw S'G', the barrel shows Underwood 8 43 with the bomb underneath. until Ordnance arranged for additional barrel manufacturers. Some stock C+B I.I.P. This M1 Carbine is 1 part short of being considered all matching. On the other hand, a detailed examination of a carbine is not always possible and the above parts can be looked at without even picking up the carbine from a gun show table, choosing a selection results in a full page refresh. The left stock is stamped M-U where the sling is inserted, apparently meaning Marlin Firearms made the stock; walnut with a high wood, two rivet handguard. As time goes on more and more carbines are having parts replaced. Some of these blocks were split up and used before or after other blocks. Underwood supplied barrels for Irwin-Pedersen (page 50). 30 M1. and the top rear is marked SAGINAW SG / 3289121. This is due to the fact that, except for extremely late production Winchester and Inland examples, WWII carbines will have several features in common. A few manufacturers used some serial number blocks out of order. Bolt is parkerized. There is no bayonet lug. .30 M1. and the top rear is marked IRWIN-PEDERSON / 1767065. Good luck. over the years has sometimes conflicted with the information in these documents. WWII "Saginaw" M1 Carbine Converted to a Fully Automatic M2 ConfigurationThis is an example of an original WWII production M1 carbine as produced by the Saginaw Steering Gear Company, that was later converted and registered as a fully automatic M2 type carbine. of a company that is committed to your satisfaction. The barrel has been treated with cold blue. It is a rare M1 Carbine that is 1 part short of being all matching. Should you have any questions regarding markings, members of our forum are the best source for answers. Each prime contractor was assigned a code letter: Therefore, for example, a carbine made by Rock Ola would be expected to have all R coded parts. The high wood refers to the stock, not the hand guard. It looks good and has a strong bright bore. The inside of the operating slide is marked IP which is a Irwin-Pedersen mark (page 65). But for some reason, buying a gun online can marked: JM, Amco, MMQ,J.M.Q. found to indicate this was done by the original manufacturer(s). The gun comes with one period-correct magazine. If a carbine appears to have all of the proper vintage, correctly coded parts and doesnt seem to have been refinished, the possibility exists that the weapon has been correctly restored. XA through XD was assigned for use by their Engineering Section on carbines built for testing and evaluation by their engineers. Many of these so-called pot belly stocks were used on rebuilt M1 carbines but were not used on production M1 carbines during WWII. No import markings. to the Saginaw Steering Gear (SG) contract turned over carbine production at the Grand Rapids facility (S'G') to Saginaw Steering Gear. A. They put on the Mauser type rear sight and milled the original rear sight pedestal to reduce glare. A sometimes overlooked area is the back of the operating slide where it comes into contact with the gas piston. An adjustable rear sight and bayonet lug were added, likely for issue during the Korean War. The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for statistical purposes. reconstruction of this history, we have a short survey on our forum (with instructions) The serial numbers allocated to these carbines were as follows. The rifle comes with a 15 round magazine. Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun! I have a high wood Rockola on my early IP. Many people have reconstructed many carbines with what they believe should have been on the carbine when it left the factory. Therefore, a carbine made by any of the other firms will not have barrels made by the same company that produced the receiver. Lock, Stock & Barrel Investments Saginaw took over production in Grand Rapids and marked the facilities M1 Carbines SG to differentiate them from the ones produced at the original Saginaw plant. Yellow Birch heartwood tends to be a light reddish brown, with nearly white sapwood. The top of the barrel is marked UNDERWOOD / 3 43 and P. Refinished wood is normally quite easy to spot as are restruck, refreshed or enhanced stock markings. Questions should be posted in the appropriate forum. The front sight is marked 6 on the left and N on the top which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and others (page 56). We believe we sell living history, and honor the veterans who fought and died for our freedoms. community. Visit our website for new treasures daily. The rifling is sharp. Without a subpoena, voluntary compliance on the part of your Internet Service Provider, or additional records from a third party, information stored or retrieved for this purpose alone cannot usually be used to identify you. The right side of the receiver shows some thinning from cycling. The rifle was originally assembled with the Underwood barrel, so the barrel is still considered a matching part. http://www.chestnutridge.com/images/inv/CPBP2.asp. Early Swivels: Unmarked Late Swivels: Marked "UI" "U" -Winchester: Didn't mark them. So it's possible one of the 1,706,436 carbine barrels Underwood made got put on that Carbine. Except for very early Inlands, virtually all carbines were stamped on the right side of the stock with the familiar crossed cannons Ordnance Department escutcheon. It is this Everything Stamper G.S. The rear sight is a Type I dual flip up aperture. Thicker wood along the right side adjacent the slide (bottom). Serial numbered receivers transferred were not restricted to a certain block of serial numbers. Model: M1 Carbine. Not consenting or withdrawing consent, may adversely affect certain features and functions. on a limited basis prior to the introduction of the M2 stocks but no documentation has been Earlier stocks sometimes had their High Wood area removed. Need Help?service@guns.comCall (866)582-4867, PO Box 1131 13800 Nicollet Blvd Burnsville, MN 55337 2023Guns.com. Commercially manufactured modern day replicas of the dies/stamps used for markings are often used in "restoration". This product contains chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm. A full parts list with their markings is included in the photographs. Barrel Date: March, 1943, Action Type:Semi Auto, Detachable Magazine. You may have been hiding under a rock if youve not yet heard of the new SIG Sauer MCX Spear. My Saginaw serial 332xxxx also doesn't have any dots, just SAGINAW SG. When the adjustable sights are removed and replaced by the correct vintage L type sight, these punch marks are often apparent and reveal the fact that a later sight was installed at one time. There is no erosion. The receiver is marked Saginaw S'G', the barrel shows Underwood 8 43 with the bomb underneath. By the way, the company that produced the receiver is deemed the prime contractor. There are some exceptions to this rule as several prime contractors are known to have utilized parts made for other prime contractors. Which Saginaw? The barrel flat is marked with a flaming bomb. I've got one with (JJ) in a circle , on the flipper, on a Winchester. Got 1 ! This rifle is a must have for any WW2 or vintage collector. Sights / Optics:The front sight is a bladed post set between 2 protective wings. We got our hands on one of the original MCXs for some testing. Common sense will dictate that a well used stock would not have pristine stock markings. .. Swivels: Unmarked -Underwood: Didn't mark them. All Rights Reserved. 12/1/21 - This is a very nice example of a Saginaw M1 Carbine issued to the US military between May 1943 - January 1944. receivers were brought back online and completed (i.e. If a parkerized bolt is observed, the piece is almost certainly not all original. see comments at the best online prices at eBay! Our Assessment:The M1 Carbine was developed and produced after WWII started. Are you sure it is a Saginaw? A number of researchers and authors are present on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects. Guns.com is built to be simple easily organized products, useful descriptions from experts, and support to guide you to the right choice. The trigger group is marked IP on the right rear which is a Irwin-Pedersen mark (page 78). Mechanics:The action functions correctly. service to the online gun buying experience that is unheard of. And unlike our competitors, it extends beyond the buying process. numbers (i.e. Grand Rapids, Michigan, Year of Manufacture:1942 to 1944. Stocks with a lighter color were treated with a dark stain, most notably Birch. If a receiver was scrapped and not used, its serial number may or may not have been reused. The top front of the receiver is marked U.S. Carbines with a Serial Number above 8 million. To get better and faster responses and opinions. All Rights Reserved. They made 7 of the parts including receivers, but no barrels, between May of '43 and Jan., of '44. 317XXXX. of 0.5. Most were of the flat top variety although the rounded bolts came into use by a few makers before production ceased. Post WWII, the Office of the Chief of Ordnance (OCO) assigned replacement numbers to armories, arsenals, and depots Bore Condition:The bore is bright; semi bright at the muzzle. Overall Condition:This rifle retains about 87% of its metal finish. The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for statistical purposes. The hand guard should also be removed when possible to determine that it is properly coded to match the stock. A little history of Saginaw (S.G.) and its carbines. U.S. I'm guessing this indicates a Springfield Armory rebuild. These stamps were commercially manufactured for use on the The one and only finish approved for use on stocks & handguards was raw linseed oil. The Type IA barrel band is marked KV-SG which is a Saginaw SG mark (page 59). Therefore, it is very important to examine the rear sight dovetail area very closely even though the correct type of non-adjustable rear sight may be present. On the inside it has the longer barrel channel and thicker wood to strengthen the stock. Because of it 's possible one of saginaw m1 carbine markings operating slide is marked U.S. carbines with what believe. Including receivers, but no barrels, between may of '43 and Jan., of '44 numbers! 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